Peanut Gallery Independent Praise of Drew Hempel's research

You have the best mental focus of any student I've met. Just don't let it go to your head! Qigong Master Jim Nance 2015

Your mind is very powerful from years of meditation. Just focus on the lower tan t'ien. Qigong Master Chunyi Lin 2015

My second source for the superiority of full lotus is the teaching of qigong master Chunyi Lin, founder of Spring Forest Qigong. According to qigong researcher (and all around wild and crazy guy) Drew Hempel, Chunyi Lin said that 20 minutes in full lotus is worth 4 hours of any other meditation practice. That sounds like an exaggeration, but Drew has had some pretty far out results from his practice. Chris, Tai Chi in San Diego, 2011

2/2/11: Long time Steamshovel correpsondent Drew Hemphill has had his research cited extensively in a new article by Dan Eden (Gary Vey) who had exposed James Hurtak's ties to Project HAARP and the NSA: Kenn Thomas
I think Drew Hempel offers us some clues about chirality and harmonics.

1) There is a self-sustaining cosmic resonance (hidden coherence) - what he calls alchemical resonance?

2) Natural resonance cycles change over time (based on precession of the equinox?) where there is a switch from carbon to silicone based life?

3) The resonance change between Saturn and Jupiter will have a major effect upon Earth?

4) Aligning the ions of plasma with the ions of matter creates complimentary opposites of energy and mass?

5) Positronium (electron-position coupling) creates mirror matter that passes through black holes?

The Secret of Pre-Established Harmony and the Image of Time

gritzle70 on The Next Level forum in 2008
According to the polymath and University of Minnesota alum Drew Hempel, the vagus nerve climax can be achieved by male practitioners of meditation and Qigong. According to Hempel, these practices can ionize neurotransmitters in the gut — our body's largest repository of serotonin — which can then travel through the vagus nerve and cross the normally prudish blood-brain barrier, thus giving neck-pulsing, orgasmic-like sensations written about in Daoist texts. Qigong and meditation, Hempel said, are the opposite of dopamine obsession: they focus on present awareness and a lack of anticipation for future events.
David Logan, Op-ed, Daily Nebraskan, 2011

Drew Hempel has caught my interest for some time as many of his articles on the ‘Natural Resonance Revolution’, so closely matches much of our groups ( and my own ) experiences and thoughts on the nature of the phenomena we’ve been exposed to via the frequencies I’ve created for our use. A lot of what Drew speaks about is congruent to where we are at and I think it really serves all of us to reflect upon his writings especially in relation to what we have been journeying through in the real world.
Donald Adams, aka Dr. Starz, computer frequency "sonification" healer

The final phase though of the Exopolitical NWO exoreligion roll out is the Borg-like assimilation philosophies of the Transhuman Movement
and their matrix upload plans so well outlined by Drew Hempel.

UFO Culture blog 2009

Drew Hempel went that far. He's a scientist who has plumbed the depths of these training techniques.
He kind of takes...at one point he called it Pre-Socratic African Taoist Yoga training. Which is I guess a pretty bare one-liner about his research but you know qigong is something that will become more culturally significant in the way that Tai Chi is now.Philosophy professor Dave Leech podcast discussion with David Metcalfe and Dr. Tim Brigham
I will tell you how to do this. I followed the information which was posted in online forums and articles by someone called 'drew hempel' as he studied something called 'spring forest qigong' and 'taoist yoga'. I followed the same training he did and it's very powerful. He studied SFQ with qigong master chun yi lin (http://www.bornahealer.com/)...
- there is a lot of **** on the net because it seems like no one has a clue how to do real energy work, drew hempel was the only person I found who made any sense to me, so I followed what he did and it worked....
Dreambot, 2011 Spiritualforums post

Drew Hempel's third eye is connected like only a handful of people on this planet's are. He's able to see things in a way very few can. If you're interested in metaphysics and the such, he's worth a read.

"Riskfactor" posting on a forum in 2011.

The disgustingly typical common dismissal of yours of Drew's worth is telling. Can't handle anything too far beyond your comfort zone so you don't at all engage, as Drew would say, with his information. Much of which is simply discerning the fundamental structure linking revered traditional scriptures and cuttingedge science and it's explication in human life on Earth.
Then of course you project by claiming he is not engaging well... you're right, but you are still denying your hypocrisy, as you are too scared to admit that the reason you say you don't appreciate any of his writing is probably not because it is all false but because it is occult to your limited mind.
You can't argue with the facts and are too dumb to handle his points so you resort to smear tactics.
Who cares if some nut spams the net. It is only disruptive to the weak of mind. Fact is Drew has an "original" conclusion that deserves global discussion and you censor it like a welltrained shill, which I assume you are not.

Drew's idea. 2:3 is Yang, 3:4 is Yin... ie 666 is Yang. But he might repeat it like the example below, at which 99% of readers will throw their hands up in incomprehension and only folk like me, a stubborn OneTruthLover, bother to really get what he is saying. To say his is crazy is stupidly missing the point, plus to which he seems saner than most of the zombies who pretend humanity. He may a mixed up lake but at least he is not a puddle of puke.
Brace yourselves,
"I've posted that in fact musicologist Ernest McClain had already gleaned this from Plato -- see his Pythagorean Plato -- and that in fact while 5/4 was the Greek Miracle as the cube root of two leading to amplitude as classical mathematics for 3 dimensional form

the Tai Chi Perfect 5th-4th as 2:3 and 3:4 Yang and Yin (my discovery) is the QUANTUM secret of 2-dimensional energy intensity from frequency, not classical amplitude."

Needless to say he condenses much meaning in few words so you gotta read more his of his spiel to get it. His earliest piece on the greek Miracle is best. Cloud Tiger, a Tai Chi practitioner in the UK, 2009

Hempel, proficient in a wide sprectrum of intellectual pursuits including math and music --- and far from being deluded in any sense of the word as brought forth in the above quote by Hui Neng --- is also an eastern spiritual renaissance master as well. Just as much too, in the aforementioned areas and others far afield, as a search of his name will show, or did before he just simply disappeared into cyber space or infinity, he was one of the most prolific contributors on the net. His writings and books lean heavily toward a variety of eastern spiritual aspects, with a strong personal emphasis on qigong and meditation executed almost exclusively through the use of the full lotus position.

Additionally, even though Drew has resurfaced and available for interaction to all comers, I have however, NOT changed any of the above content of the original page because in my opinion it still remains highly relevant, showing all kinds of insight into who and where Hempel comes from, from any number of angles. Good to hear you are back. The internet wasn't the same without you.

The Wanderling, advaita meditation online site page on Drew Hempel

First we have to address the root of this possible problem.

the main root of all of this is the conceptual axiom that the parts of a system should be symmetrical if it desires to be in HARMONY. This in math is called COMMUTATIVE RING, or AxB=BxA.

From this principle (the commutative ring) we created a body of rules and paradigms in science, and even in religion, that separates our perception from nature itself (our game of denying being part of it) For example, as someone on this forum talked about maxwell´s quaternions in here. To work with an asymmetrical principle (most of things in nature) with our math that has as a main basic principle the commutative ring we first need to CHANGE what we gonna study, I mean, our science takes the information in nature which is assymétrical and DIVERGENT and converts it to an symmetrical and CONVERGENTE group of data to work with.
This is, as a principle, exactly what we did with the musical scales, as drew demonstrated.

In ancient music we got the asymmetrical intervals and, mainly since old non-pre-socratic Greece, we develop the obsession and the desire to “correct” it´s ugliness (natural asymmetry), so we transformed ancient music into symmetrical intervals. Buy by doing so we generate a comma, an extra group of data that can´t be used and should be discarded and watched over to avoid its return, because if this comma returns to the scale, it will create a hell of a mess to the fragile artificial symmetry we applied to it. So, conceptualy, the kind of technology we create, it prefers to change nature into artificial symmetry instead of flowing with it.

So it´s a matter of the right tool for the right job. And our Math has no asymmetrical tool for the job. IT´s all about the commutative ring, so even when working with asymmetrical systems (like nature) it has to convert it into symmetrical to process it. IT´s simple, drew is saying that western math and music take what is divergent (spiraling out) by nature and converge it before giving any kind of result. It´s a fact. Check, I don´t know, Wikipedia?, to get informations about the commutative ring and the non-commutative ring.

Now, I´m not 100% with drew on the consequences of “raping” nature with symmetry. I do know drew for the last 10yrs. Or so. I´m very good at math and good enough in music. I´m so-so in physics, i´ve studied electrical engineer for two yrs before change my mind and go to journalism school and drop it too to work as a photographer and illustrator and now as a computer graphics animator and advertising film director. So I have some background to understand a great chunk of drew hypothesis.

We try to solve all with symmetry, as the case with the music intervals, therefore, as in the case of music intervals, we create commas in science and all the range of activities that rely on science.

So this is the radical part of this use of musical model to explain things: if we try to understand nature (that is asymmetrical and divergent) with concepts and tools that are symmetrical and convergent) we gonna create dissonances in return and enter in a cycle of solving a dissonance with more symmetry to generate even more dissonance in the next octave ´till we # everything up! (we are already doing so! Our tech gives us marvelous stuff at the same time it acidify the oceans ending up #ing up with animals that depends on ultrasound for communication to reproduction. Our tech gives us marvelous tools as computer hi-res screens, but in return any cycle above 30hz is with time stressful to the human cells, etc, etc.)

non-commutative is so alien to our understand of thing that, as an example, if you go to Mr. Wolfram Math repository site you gonna find only ONE EMPTY page about it!!non-commutative is so alien to our understand of thing that, as an example, if you go to Mr. Wolfram Math repository site you gonna find only ONE EMPTY page about it!!

Now let´s go to the possible solutions for this.

1.full-lotus as a solution. Drew said full-lotus can transform the excess of electrochemical information in the lower body into electromagnectic information in the upper body. Some angry scientific trolls started to make fun of it.

for the materialistic people the thing is in the physiology.

siting in full-lotus will put a great chunk of pressure into your SACRUM! The sacrum is empty and pressure there will start to create small levels of ultra sound that will TRANSDUCE the energy from electrochemical into electromagnetic (remember, SOUND is PRESSURE WAVES, and it´s been prove that ultrasound can transduce energy from one state to other… use uncle google, he is your friend!! )… so this is one of the main reasons why full-lotus is a great tool.

It took me one year of daily chikung to sit in full-lotus with ease, before my one year of spring forest qigong I could barely sit in freestyle (like an north American indian) for more than a couple of minutes without felling a hell of pain in my back and legs!

After i´ve learned to sit in full-lotus, it´s a #ing bliss, full-lotus and half-lotus all day long. I even cut the legs from all my tables in my studio so I can sit in full-lotus and half-lotus anternated all day!!

So it´s one solution, but it´s a personal one.

2. Music create patterns in our brain.
It´s known that music create patterns in our brain. So if we just listen to music made with symmetrical and proportional intervals, some kind of patterns will form… with non-western music (mostly live, since hard to find speakers in home and computers that can produce ultrasound! ) so with non-western music we can generate other kind of patterns, since the intervals are asymmetrical. Drew have posted links to papers demonstrated, among otherthings, how ultrasound can stimulate the brain, the center of the brain, so on.

Also, Pineal Gland is a place made for sonoluminescence production. See? Pineal gland has fluid and cavitation in it! So with ultrasound stimulus in it we can ionize it a lot, we can produce tons of melatonie, and also we can generate little bubbles of light! By my personal experience, seeing light while practicing small universe (the oldest meditation that exist, it´s part of spring forest chikung and also is a “secret” inside the kriya yoga school) is relaxing, insightful and healing.
So, changing the king of music we listen to is a way of changing the patterns in our brain and so maybe it will reflect in the patterns we create in the world too.

3.creating a science where natural resonance ratios are important.
Well, this third item i´ll say nothing, since it´s what i´m working for the past 5 yrs. But a simple example of using natural resonance (non-comutative) musical ratios in technology is The Sonic Bloom, it´s a kit with audio from birds generating the fifth and forth in a repeated way so the intensity will affect the plants cells to expand more, taking more nutrients. It´s amazing. I use it to feed my home grown food (i´m a raw vegetarian) as my wife garden.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg…

Now those open minded, the daily practice of small universe from spring forest qigong, or the listening of music without symmetrical intervals, or the use of tech like the sonic bloom are just a few of the examples of the changes we can make personally or collectively to a better and more harmonious world.
And those so full of the “right” paradigm, well, you can keep projecting your anger on drew, it´s funny to read your assumptions about my crazy druid friend!

KALLISTI and have a nice day and a lovely life!
Guto Novo.
Correspondent for 15 years in Brazil

Seriously drew is next level, beyond even Dobbs, Ebert, Heidegger, Mcluhan etc.
Another UK practitioner-philosopher
"The universe and I came into being together; I and everything therein are One."

"If then all things are One, what room is there for speech? On the other hand, since I can say the word 'one' how can speech not exist? If it does exist, we have One and speech -- two; and two and one -- three(14) from which point onwards even the best mathematicians will fail to reach (the ultimate); how much more then should ordinary people fail?">"

- Chuang Tzu, 300 BCE

"Sound is the bridge between God and the soul" SHRI DHYANYOGI

a “universal scaling system”, ... this discrete scaling manifests itself in acoustic systems, as is well known in western classical music, where the two scalings correspond, respectively, to passing to the octave (frequency ratio of 2) and transposition (the perfect fifth is the frequency ratio 3/2), with the approximate value log(3)/ log(2) ∼ 19/12 responsible for the difference between the “circulating temperament” of the Well Tempered
Clavier and the “equal temperament” of XIX century music. It is precisely the irrationality of log(3)/ log(2) which is responsible for the noncommutative [complementary opposites as yin/yang] nature of the quotient corresponding to the three places {2, 3,∞}. -
Math professor (Fields medal) Alain Connes on quantum music as noncommutative time-frequency origin of reality from infinite spiral of perfect fifths!
Our brain is an incredible ....perceives things in momentum space of the photons we receive and manufactures a mental picture. Which is geometric. But what I am telling you is that I think ...that the fundamental thing is spectral [frequency]....And somehow in order to think we have to do an enormous Fourier Transform...on geometry. By talking about the "music of shapes" is really a fourier transform of shape and the fact that we have to do it in reverse. Alain Connes, 2012
Stanford Quantum physicist Eddie Oshins:
This representation only works for the (more fundamental) 1/2-integral representations (i.e. spinors/turns/quaternions) but also lets one build the vector and tensor representations. The converse does not hold....this property of "noncommutivity" in itself might be valuable in some way.
My claim, and original idea, has been that this is circumnavigating a T'ai Chi (Yin/Yang) symbol! More recently (Oshins, 1993b) I have suggested that this proximate technique can be used to realize Wing Chun kung-fu's "bong sau/tan sau" movement out of the Kauffman/Oshins "quaternionic arm" discussed and referenced below in end note 5.
I believe that this may be a way to get mind to code the relative relationship of part of oneself with respect to the rest of oneself (self-referential motion) and can explain the concepts of being "centered"/"one"/"integrated"/"extended"/"whole" etc. which one strives for in meditation.
Oshins, E. (1993). Oshins, E. (1993). A test for classical psychospinors. http://www.quantumpsychology.com/pdf/Test-ClassicalPsychospinors.pdf In Abdullah, F. (Ed.) Conservation and Invariance. Cambridge, UK: Alternative Natural Philosophy Association, London England.

Manfred Euler's 2013 description of acoustic STM - Scanning Tunnelling Microscopy builds on his previous connections between the quantum acoustic realms.
Binaural hearing is the acoustic analog of the interferometer or double-slit experiments. The two ears can be regarded as an acoustic interferometer, which recovers the phase difference of signals between the two ears by binaural correlation.

Near-field imaging with sound waves compelling demonstrates the inadequacy of pictorial realism and promotes more abstract views of the reality displayed.
A comparison of sound and matter waves clarifies that these [noncommutative] limitations exist in principle.
2016: de Broglie clocks as synchronization: a tangible model of how mass emerges.
matter waves are locally in phase with the particle clocks (de Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony).

The clock runs forever so it's self-sustaining (consciousness-energy). It resonates with the quantum vacuum. The harmonic beats create dynamic energy.

So then you have a "phase particle" that can be faster than the speed of light - superluminal - and a "mass particle" that is slower than the speed of light as the "group wave" of the "phase wave." The beats of the phase wave then are "in resonance" with the quantum vacuum - and so create mass from the massless field, explaining the Higgs mechanism.

"Universal coherence" - a "mind boggling outlook."

Phase harmony in de Broglie theory relates a local periodic phenomenon (the 'particle clock') to a periodic propagating field in such a way that relativistic invariance is satisfied. If a similar phenomenon in the cell is relevant it should couple the global oscillation pattern locally with periodic (mechanic, electric, biochemical ???) processes.

Coherence as consciousness.
"Ghost Tones"

Manfred Euler is a Professor Emeritus of Physics at the University of Kiel.

It's actually a Klein Bottle so you can't see the 5th dimension.

The red is a logarithmic singularity - but that is just classical physics.

So the foundation of reality is quantum - which is noncommutative phase as the 5th dimension.

So light as a photon is a point but as a wave it is nonlocal - but this means it is in 2 places at the same time - as the 5th dimension that is noncommutative.

People think that doesn't make sense - how can it be in two places at the same time? Actually basic music theory explains this.

So for example the Perfect Fifth is C to F as subharmonic 2/3 while the Perfect Fifth is C to G overtone harmonic as 3/2.

So C = 2 while F=3=G at the same time. That is noncommutative phase. It is also called "Fourier Uncertainty" or "time-frequency uncertainty" - and that is the true foundation of reality.

So for example de Broglie - studying relativity - realized Einstein had a problem - as energy goes to the speed of light then time as wavelength slows down, gets bigger. That means as frequency goes higher then time also gets bigger. That violates a fundamental property since Pythagoras that frequency is inverse to time as wavelength (from music theory).

So de Broglie realized since quantum physics is real there has to be a phase wave that is faster than the speed of light. So you have a mass wave that is the "group phase" - and then you have a particle phase that is called the "internal clock" or a 2nd clock that is the phase wave of the particle - also called the "pilot wave" - and this comes back from the future. So there is a Harvard physicist Andrew Strominger who works with Stephen Hawking - and says that the future already exists and reality is a holograph. So the 4D universe is actually a projection of this 5th dimension of noncommutative phase that is time-like.

This is how precognition is real.

It was Olivier Costa de Beauregard who emphasized that precognition was part of de Broglie's pilot wave model and in 1956 de Broglie said to Costa de Beauregard that there was "an incompatibility with our conventional notions of space and time." Nevertheless scientists have continued this parapsychology research based on de Broglie: pdf AY Temkin 2011

Peter Kingsley notes, "In terms not only of formal and structural analogies but also of historical contacts, there can be no separating the Thracian Orpheus [of Pythagorean equivalence] from central-Asiatic shamanic tradition." This connection with Taoism is also made explicit by the motif of the Pythagorean master Empedocles who, "dies a miraculous death by vanishing into thin air but who leaves a tell-tale item.... A more classic Taoist concept is that of achieving the divine state either by fashioning a spirit-body...thoughtfully leaving a pile of discarded garments...."
Ancient Philosophy, Mystery and Magic, Oxford Ph.D. thesis, 1995, p. 236.

Monday, July 3, 2017

The Single Yang and Richard Bertschinger: A new reader cuts to the chase!

Thanks a lot  You really know your stuff. However, why is it that Yin and Yang on page 39 are defined as the 2/3 undertone and 3/2 overtone, yet on page 44, Yin suddenly becomes a 4/3 interval?

Wow you really cut to the chase! Impressive. pdf book on "rhetorical traditions in Neidan for female alchemists" 2007 Ph.D. thesis, pdf link

So there are three levels of analysis - the original is 1) "complementary opposites" and then 2) "divide and average" and the final is the Greek Miracle - (leading to modern science). Richard Bertschinger - part 1 - speaks on his Secret of Everlasting Life book youtube

So the Chinese attempted a 60 or - 53 note scale based on the "divide and average" math - in which case 4/3 is the Perfect Fourth as yin and 3/2 is the Perfect fifth as yang.

So the three in one harmony - means that the Octave is 2/1 or 1/2 - with the above alternation of Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth. The "Divide and Average" math means this "converges" to the octave but never gets there. Richard Bertschinger: 3 in 1 secret of everlasting life neidan alchemy youtube

So the closest approximation to lining up the octave and the Perfect fifth/Perfect Fourth is the 53 note scale.

Sounds crazy right - 53 notes IN ONE OCTAVE. haha.

But at first this is theoretical - right - actually Alain Danielou made a keyboard with 53 notes.

The Indian scale of 22 notes - or around there is also originally based on this Octave-Perfect Fifth/Fourth.

So in those systems - as Stephen Hawking points out - the geometry is "sacred" and therefore a transcendent infinity - while the arithmetic continues infinitely.

So in that system - each number is "male" and "female."

For example Kepler was against the "closed" equation of the golden ratio but Kepler was in favor of the Fibonacci Series whereby each number is "male" and "female" based on Pythagorean principles that "converge" as number - but NEVER actually complete the convergence.

So this is called the "infinite spiral of fifths" - and in music theory it is empirically true - in other words it's not just "theory" - it is the actual harmonic series.

So that was the dominant "divide and average" math - from Egypt to Babylonia to India to China - Bronze Age math, let's call it.

But the first system - the "three in one unity" as the "three gunas" or Pythagorean harmonics - it's called Orthodox - it just uses the Octave-Perfect Fifth-Perfect Fourth.

In other words - no 9/8 even. For example Gurdjieff taught the Law of Three but then he also expanded it to 5/4 and 8/5 and 9/8, etc. and so this caused Westerners to just assume he was still using a "divide and average" math which then easily just turns into Western symmetric math as the Greek Miracle, etc.

O.K. so as I said - Orthodox Pythagorean - no 9/8 even (which is from 3/2 squared and then doubled back to the same octave so 9/4 is 9/8).

Instead - the "3 in 1" unity is based on noncommutative phase - which means that the Perfect Fourth as yin - is alchemically transmuted into the 3/2 subharmonic as the Perfect Fifth. Richard Bertschinger - on the Great Oneness as the 3 Jewels - youtube Taoist alchemy neidan

So in other words geometrically - as I state - F=3=G - at the same time. Two places at the same time - which is to say you can't see it travel instantaneously - as time = 3 - an instant in two places - but you can listen to it as the 4th dimension of space or the 5th dimension as time.

O.K. so in alchemy the goal is to convert the yin energy into yang.

So the question you asked - is - like I said - it cuts to the Chase.

Remember reality is holographic - so you just entered into a black hole of my brain. haha. I was just thinking about this.

So noncommutative phase actually means that everything is happening at the same time - from the perspective of light.

So when we "turn the light around" this means time goes to zero - but at the same time there is Yuan Qi - that is yang qi as the Perfect Fifth that harmonizes all apparent movement in 4D spacetime - from the 5th dimension.

I go into this more in detail on my blog - with various posts and articles.

So I could elaborate - but basically - the Perfect Fourth as yin - is a different geometry and so it's still a complementary opposite - but it has a different math value - whereas when the yin qi is turned to yang qi, this actually creates a reverse time nonlocal harmonization from the future.

This is called the Law of Phase Harmony by de Broglie - I devised an equation that connects the Taoist alchemy training to his physics based on Pythagorean analysis of Einstein and quantum entanglement.

So I hope you see what I'm getting at.

As the qigong master I studied from states: The simplest is the most powerful.

There is a qigong lineage that "sells" on this site - or they used to - but they use the time "The Single Yang" - and that is the same concept. The Great Oneness: Secret of Everlasting Life" - Richard Bertschinger - youtube

I ran across it again recently - in an academic paper on Taoist alchemy in religious rituals - that the goal is to turn all the energy into Heaven Yang energy.

So this is considered the Yang Shen golden body - but in reality it is an infinite process from the Emptiness that is a "3 in 1" unity as eternal motion.

In the Dao De Jing it says: “When there is no desire, it is possible to see the mystery.” If one observes inside, then the upper, middle and lower are also observed and can link together. The classic says: if you attain one thing, all things will be accomplished. Once Yuan Jing, Yuan Qi and Yuan Shen meet, Dan Gong (Elixir Achievement) is achieved. Then in the dark mysterious pass, the aperture of Xuan Pin, and the origin of yin and yang, the Shenqi resides. Secrets of the Single Yang
It is kind of like the paradox - if something moves so fast then you don't see it move at all. When light is turned around and time goes to zero - there is still a hidden momentum to light due to this noncommutative phase - and this is also the Tai Chi.

So the three in one unity - it is both the change of relative reality in 4D spacetime but it is also from the perspective of light as Yuan Shen - nonmovement that has "doing" in it - I am quoting "Foundations of Internal Alchemy."

Let me know if you think I am just b.s.ing - but another secret is that Pythagorean philosophy states that "One is not a number" - this is a secret of the  Yang Shen again - when time goes to zero based on the light as the individual spirit consciousness then it merges into universal consciousness which has so much light that the whole 4D universe of spacetime disappears and yet there is still "formless awareness" or the Yuan Qi as the Emptiness that still creates 4D spacetime eternally.

So by resonating with our source of reality - then we can see the future, have levitation, physical transformations, and change the past - but it is not "us" doing it - it is this impersonal transformation process that is an eternal listening.

So it is stated that Kali is both the destruction and creation of the Universe but Kali is also from Kala as time.

The same is true of Chronos and Kronos.

So geometry as space collapses into pure listening as time-frequency - the Emptiness is time as formless awareness while the frequency is the spirit as light. This is the "3 in 1 unity" that is the simplest and yet most powerful - and it's also called the "point of origination" - just as in physics - light collapses to an infinite photon in space yet at the same time light is entangled nonlocally as infinite awareness that can not be seen and also creates energy as new mass.

Another way to say this is what I call the I-One-Eye - and I made that term up ten years ago. But then I discovered that Louis Kauffman, the math professor, was making the same claim - and still is as we corresponded recently - that the number one is actually the I-thought as light - that is noncommutative in time and therefore as noncommutative time, as an imaginary number series that changes phase, as complementary opposites - it then spins out reality.

The only thing is that because he's a mathematician he still has to convert that to "symmetric" math of modern Western mathematics. He worked with Eddie Oshins who I cite - since I wrote that pdf - Oshins discovered the same secret I realized about noncommutative phase - and he taught Wing chun but he was a real quantum physicist at Stanford but he also was a quantum psychologist.

So you can read his work - I blogged on him - for more secrets - he calls it self-similar movement or quaternion movement.

So we can say that - yin jing turns to yang jing which is yin qi that turns to yang qi which is yin shen that turns to yang shen which is yuan jing which creates yuan qi from yuan shen.

So the final stage when you go into the Emptiness for real - there is a unification of the 3 into the 1 - and this is why the yin disappears. The yin shen has to be transformed into yang shen and this is done by transforming the yin qi into yuan qi.

In the end the Yang Shen - golden body - vaporizes into the Yuan Qi because it is not the individual spirit that is really doing the training. Another way to say this is "No One is listening" or "the cosmic mother will never be unveiled."

So your question actually has no answer - it is an infinite listening process since the 2 and 3 never collapse symmetrically since they are noncommutative or complementary opposites. In this sense the 4 is like the infinite that can not be expressed with any mental concept or symbol - and yet the 4 at the same time is the expansion into the material realm of yin - so that the original origins get forgotten about.

So it's not that the Perfect Fourth as 4/3 does not exist - it just means that is how the energy expands and contracts into itself. So some music alchemists - create the Lamdomba - which, as I said is this attempt to "contain" the infinite through divide and average numbers - but starting with Plato they made the bold leap of just embracing the discontinuity.

Math professor Luigi Borzacchini states that the concealment of Orthodox Pythagorean philosophy, to make the Greek Miracle, is "really astonishing" and "shocking" and is a "deep pre-established disharmony" that "guides the evolutive principle of science." I have corresponded with him about this. Borzacchini states that for the Pythagorean orthodox philosophy - there is no separation between discrete number and the continuous.

So real Pythagorean philosophy was based on 5 years of silence before Pythagoras could even be met in person - and even then it was through some concealment - and his name literally means "snake master" - and so whether he ever existed, who knows. But the training is real and yet most of us would instead want to expand the numbers - to try to figure out how to line up the octave with the Perfect Fifth (and it's complementary opposite).

So we can state that the Perfect Fourth is from the perspective of what's called Fourier Uncertainty or time-frequency uncertainty - you fundamentally can not measure infinite time and frequency, at the same time - and so you fundamentally can not HAVE the Perfect Fifth in two places at the same time - when you ASSUME that you need an external math continuum or geometric "line" as physical space to measure time.

Is that starting to make sense? Pythagoras taught that all is Number and Harmony - but instead his true teaching got warped into "all is geometry."

So if you really study the conundrum of say irrational geometry - the truth is actually that space itself "collapses" into time that can not be seen and that this is a mind-body transformation training. But since humans left the forest - vision is our main perception instead of listening - and so it is very difficult for us to believe that there is this infinite 5th dimension that is "time-lie" as instantaneous signalling or communication, the foundation of reality.

thanks - if you read all of this - I am impressed - as I had to hope I could "sell" you on something. haha.